Friday, December 31, 2010

Insight Bowl


The conversation on the morning of the Insight Bowl sounded like this...
Ty " Who do we want?"
Kyley "Who is even playing?"
Julie "Missouri and Iowa and what are their mascots?" (we have been working on learning the schools mascots since last year, we have made progress then college football ended and I feel like we are back at the beginning)
Loren "Lets go for Iowa since Missouri was mean to the Mormons."

You got to love our reasoning, most games when we don't really care who is playing follows some type of random reasoning, but Ty will turn on a dime if the team we pick isn't winning.

We all rode the light rail and were sitting by some people rooting for Iowa so that just confirmed that we picked the right team; that they came from behind and ended up winning was icing on the cake. We met my Dad, Matt and our friends Ann and her daughter Jaymee. As a matter of fact as we were walking up the ramp we turned and my Dad and Matt were right beside us, they were probably on the same tram. We all had fun watching the game we had seat right on the 50 yard line, but up high. It was all all right since my dad brought his binoculars. We all took turns looking through them. Wyatt liked watching the marching band and try to figure out what words they would spell, Ty and Loren loved the football, Taylor and Kyley liked playing trivia with Uncle Matt, I liked the atmosphere of college games, the pregame show watching to see if the parachute-rs would make it on their mark, the fireworks (can't shoot those off in the indoor stadiums) the band the whole darn thing - good good night. Thank goodness it was Tuesday our last mild night since it was rainy on Wednesday and so dang cold now.
Go Hawkeyes!!

Thursday, December 30, 2010

Christmas 2010

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!


I did not know how were were going to pull off Christmas this year, we had one thing after another and not all bad. Broken car, new tires, smaller paychecks bad, trip to Hawaii good. But all cost moola as does Christmas but things worked out as it always does and the kids had a great one. We didn't do much to get into the spirit, no concerts, no ward parties, no lights, no visits to Santa and I missed it. Loren and I did most of the shopping together which was fun and I treasure but we always had something going on when we were invited to things. Next year I will make a better effort as I missed feeling the spirit. The highlights were...

Dec 19th Chesley Christmas party, it was at our house this year and one couldn't not ask for a better day. We started early so the kids would have daylight to play, see the animals, jump on the trampoline and ride horses. Can you believe I did not snap a single photo. I was too busy oohing and aahing over Loren's niece Heather's new baby Kingston. I love this family I married into I feel so blessed to have such good friends as in-laws.

Dec 22nd new boxer puppies. Brindy had a litter of 6 - do dang cute.

Dec 24th we had a small Christmas Eve celebration at our house, Loren grilled steak and we sat around and laughed and visited just our small family. Kyley opened one present a Wii Just Dance. We sat around and watched everybody attempt to dance. Taylor is the winner. We watched "A Christmas Story" laughed some more especially since Ty wanted a soft air gun and we kept saying "You'll shoot your eye out" and then the kids got to bed hoping for the big guy to visit.

Dec 25th Santa came!! The kids all sleep in one room and call on their cell phones to wake Loren and I so we can see their faces when the check out their loot, one of my favorites sights.

Taylor - a new shoe shelf (she loves to be organized) with new vans and a camera
Kyley - socks (that is all she wanted), new vans and a camera




Ty - an air soft gun, bow and arrow and the marble thingy



Wyatt - Legos, Robot Police Headquarters, air soft gun

Boy my kids must have been good!

Breakfast at Grandma Chesley's was bitter sweet this year. Loren lost his favorite Uncle Norman Perkins on the 23rd and I felt his loss. Grandma Perkins had a stroke a few months ago but she was at Grandma house so we snapped a few pictures. She recognized a few people and I think she enjoyed the festivities. Although I am sure they wore her out. Loren's mom got him a bongo drum set, it is hard not to drum on them when ever you pass them - it is a bit addictive.

Dinner at the Goodman's with a visit to my grandpa and grandma Goodman's house before. They are 95 and 93 and they were up and visiting I had to snap a few pictures. I love them and am so thankful for them. they usually give us all a $2 bill (this year it was a little more) but grandpa would always say, "if you don't spend it you will never be broke." So true so true.


We all gathered to listen to my Dad read the Christmas story from Luke, it always brings a flood of memories when I was little and practicing for hours for our little nativity. I got to sit and hold my newest niece one of Dale and Debbie's twins Laina all night. It felt so good to hold a baby. What a great end to a great day, good food, toy guns for the kids, white elephant, families, stories an all around good times.


Dec26th The day after the house is a mess and I come in our room and find Loren all by himself playing with Ty's new marble toy, I love it. I asked did Santa bring this to you or Ty?

Friday, December 24, 2010

Merry Christmas Eve


Perhaps the longest day of the year, especially when the kids open their Christmas pajamas in the morning before Loren goes to work so they can wear them all day. As soon as Loren left for work, Kyley says " let's play Christmas." The kids dressed up their stuff animals and pretend to sleep and bring gifts. Ty dressed up his orangutan Harry and Wyatt dressed up his bear Dino, Kyley dressed up her cow I just didn't get a picture of it :)

At 1:00 pm Wyatt says I wish I could go to sleep now. I explained that Santa doesn't come until night time. While Tay, Ky and Ty have been staying up late and sleeping in, Wyatt has maintained a strict schedule of early to bed early to rise. He is the first one awake each morning, most days by 5:00am. I now think it is because he was training for Christmas morning. While none of us will be able to sleep Wyatt will be dreaming of toys and Santa by 8:30pm.

"Merry Christmas to all and to All a Good night" I am now off to see how much Wyatt has memorized of that book or to play his game as he calls it.






Tuesday, December 21, 2010

Oh what do you do in winter break...


When it is finally cool to go play outside? I love this time of year, I love the falling leaves and I even love raking them. I love that we have no school and no schedule, the kids can just play. Right now the boys are in their camo phase, looking for anything camouflage so they can hide outside in the leaves and fight imaginary bad guys, hunt bear (our dogs) and deer who knows. They are out being boys and I love it.

Tuesday, December 14, 2010

Decorating the Tree





It hasn't' felt like Christmas to really anyone but Wyatt, he has had his shopping done since the 1st of December and his list done for months.

But when the tree goes up its Christmas.
I love the smell, the laughter, the trip down memory lane as we hang the ornaments. Taylor said and it is my feelings too," how sad it is when peoples Christmas trees are all matchy matchy." We like the homemade ornaments and the hodge-podge of ornaments we have collected through the years. The highlights include...
  • The angels ornaments with the "real" wings that my mom gave me when my girls were little because they reminded her of them. Taylor and Kyley know which one they are and will hang those first.
  • The handmade ones from when the kids were little, I love seeing how they have grown.
  • The family ornaments where Kyley's name is spelled wrong twice (Kylie, Kylee)
  • The ornaments made for Loren when he was one his mission from his nieces,
  • The twirly one that is everyone's favorite and it's a treat to be the one to hang it up
  • The egg made by Aunt Pat that we use to have two but Taylor Marie broke one now 8 yrs ago and we haven't forgotten.
  • the owl ornament we got when we first moved to this house,
  • the sea turtle we added this year from Hawaii. I love it!
  • I hardly have to do anything and as Taylor said (she is the insightful one) "it was weird to tell Wyatt to put ornaments on the bottom of the tree." So true, my kids are going up so fast but they still have fun hanging the ornaments and the tradition of pretending to sleep by tree is still alive and well. They didn't do a good job pretending, Wyatt is the best the big kids were laughing too hard.

Sunday, December 12, 2010

What I Love About Sunday


Just got home from church the kids had all made themselves lunch and I hear roars of laughter coming from the front room. The kids are all playing the "laughing game". You put your head on the stomach of another person and laugh. I love games like that. I had to snap a few pictures of my kids just being kids. I love it that they play together and love each other.

Quick side bar: Today in primary we sang "Book of Mormon Stories" that song has now became my favorite. Last year Wyatt comes home from primary so excited, he said, " They sang about us in primary." I asked, "What do you mean?" He said, "They were singing about the Chesley's." I am racking my brain trying to figure out what he is talking about. So I ask him to start singing the song about the Chesley's and he starts singing "Book of Mormon Stories." I still don't see how it has anything to do with the Chesley's until the last line... "Given this land if they live LIKE CHESLEY'S". Go ahead and sing it - it totally fits, I have a hard time singing "Given this land if they live righteously" it is now LIKE CHESLEY!

The Zoo



My niece Keelie turned 3 and Joe and Cassie had some connection to get us all into the Zoo to help her celebrate. Taylor and Kyley my two teenagers summed it up perfectly - I asked them if they wanted to come, it will be on a Saturday and we are leaving at 8:30am and they said, "Zoo, cousins, heck ya!" We met in the parking lot for donuts and hot chocolate and then headed into the zoo. We got there in time to see them feed the sting rays and we spent lots of time petting them. Wyatt was scared at first but after I told him that Santa wouldn't bring him any presents unless he tried. He finally touched one then loved it. Then off to the giraffes and to the African trail and the lions, and tigers and rhinos oh my. As we walked along we always look at the mountain to the right hoping to see big horn sheep - I don't think I ever seen one have or maybe only seen one. This time there was one, then two then then then entire family, probably 8-10. I wish two things, one that I had a better zoom and two that Loren could have been here to see it - he would have loved it.

Taylor and Kyley are such cool big cousins,
I always saw them playing with Hannah, Abby, Annie, Lucy, or McGregor. They gave piggy back rides, teased, played, chased and just had fun. Ty just ran off with the other big boy cousins, Durham, Jake, Jake, Raulin. Wyatt stayed with me, he is such my baby. It was fun to see the animals we even got to ride the camels but it was all about the family. I got to visit with my brothers and sisters and the cousin got to play. The weather was perfect, not to hot not too cold, I need to remind myself of these days when its 120 degrees in July.Thanks Joe and Cassie for the invite and Happy B-day to Keelie.

Wednesday, December 1, 2010

"Happy December 1st"

Those were the first words out of Wyatt's mouth at 5:45AM this morning. He had been waiting for the Christmas season for months. It only became worse when we put up all our decorations the day after Thanksgiving and none of the count-downs start until today. I love having a little one in the house; you have to smile as you watch their excitement. It makes Christmas so much more fun. I remember thinking Christmas would never get here, we would go into the big closet (I don't know why the closet) in the big room in the basement and work on our Christmas list starting in July. Now that I am grown up it is here in a blink of an eye.

Good thing I have Wyatt to remind me Christmas is a fun, happy time. He started working on his Christmas list at least 3 months ago, he started writing it but gave that up to type it instead. If anyone wants a copy I can e-mail you. He would have put the store where I could find the present if he had the time, but our computer broke so all I got was a list of his 47 wishes. Now Ty on the other hand doesn't even have a list while the first item on Kyley's list is socks. I love this time of year, so Happy December 1st to you all, only 24 more days until Christmas.

Sunday, November 28, 2010

Thanksgiving


I have so much to be thankful for, first Thanksgiving wasn't at our house today, the first time in 3 years. I have enjoyed hosting it but it was a nice change. We got to sleep in a little, hang out, watch the parade and not have to hurry and set up tables and wipe down chairs. We even had time to do my favorite tradition. Write our thankful list while sipping sparkling cider. All the kids can now write and they include things that I sometimes forget. My favorite came from Loren when he wrote that he was thankful for me for "being a good friend and a true gift from Heavenly Father." I teared up a bit. After we read our list, we spent time adding the things we had forgotten.

We had the Goodman's at 12:30 and probably the best turkey I have ever tasted made by my brother in law John. It was good to see my sisters and all the cousins, I know we all live in the valley but we live in the "south-side" (Gilbert) while the other cousins live in the "north-side" (Mesa) and it is a long 30 minute drive so I don't see them as much as I should. I enjoyed watching Ty play football and wiffle ball with Jack, Jake and Durham, watching Wyatt climb the tree with Jay Dog, Kyley play hide the shoe with Hannah, and Taylor hugging and playing with Annie. It was a good day and it wasn't over yet.

Home for a quick nap then to the Chesley's at Loren's sister Jody's house. It was close by and I was ready for a little dinner. I see these people even less than my family so it was good to visit and catch up. My niece Lacy, the one that watches our kids when Loren and I go out of town announced that she was pregnant. That now makes all of Jody's daughters prego. Her only son Kendall leaves for his mission on Tuesday the 30th so we had fun taking pictures with all his family of his last Thanksgiving home for 2 years. When Loren and I were first married I babysit those kids, Brye, Lacy, Heather and Kendall and have always felt close to them, they are now all grown up - it is crazy - time marches on.

I am so thankful for all my family but especially for my immediate family for Loren and his love and humor, his listening ear and his awesome advice. For Taylor, Kyley,Ty and Wyatt I love my little family and the closeness I feel on days like this.

Saturday, November 20, 2010

Happy Birthday to Me.

I am now forty I don't feel that old but apparently I am. It was a good day - I try to make my birthday last about a week. I succeed again this year. It started on Thursday when Loren and I met for dinner and he gave me a beautiful bracelet. Then the next morning I walk into my classroom to find every square inch of wall space covered with black paper (I am over the hill now) and the desk arranged in the number 40. Through out the day I got 40...
*pennies * rubber bands shot at me * laffy taffy's * math tiles * kleenex (to dry my tears) * kit kats* diet cokes*cookies

Fun fun fun day - not a lot of teaching or learning but my students had fun signing their name in chalk. I left as quick as I could and Loren took us all out to BJ's Pizza and Brewery, my favorite pizza! What a good day, I guess I will have to live with being 40.

Tuesday, November 9, 2010

Hawaii - Day 3-4





Saturday we woke up early to see Pearl Harbor, I think we were second in line. The movie they showed was of footage that I had never seen anywhere, it brought a tear to my eye to think of all those that gave their life for my freedom. As I was walking around I saw this quote that Eleanor Roosevelt carried with her in her wallet during WWII.

Dear Lord, lest I continue in my complacent ways, help me to remember that someone died for me today. And if there be war, help me to remember to ask and to answer "am I worth dying for?"

Pretty powerful...

We then headed up to Waimea to see the water fall. On our way we saw the coolest rainbow so of course we had to pull over. It was the brightest rainbow I have ever seen, then it dimmed like it was going out and all of the sudden it was like someone switched on the light and it was so bright and then there was a double. We probably saw three more rainbows that day, I understood why they have rainbows on their licenses plates.

We got to the falls a little early and were waiting in line for what we thought was the park. The line started to move and they said, go pick out a tree. It was Arbor Day and the Park was giving a way a free tree, we didn't think we could bring one home so we gave it to a person standing in line with us - she was excited as she went home with 2 free trees not just one. We found the entrance and again I felt like we were the only ones at the park. There were so many different kinds of flowers and trees, stuff that we never see in Az. It rained on us and the river was roaring, we heard a tree branch crack and fall off into the river. The falls which are usually mild and you can swim by them were raging from all the rain. I love this land so dang beautiful.

The car was due back and we had the Cox dinner so we headed back into Waikiki, we hung out at the beach and snorkeled in the ocean by our hotel. The sun had come out and the weather was awesome!. Dinner that night was good, they had hula dancers and fire dancers, they picked Loren to go up on stage and dance he busted the move - he did great, the hit of the party. I love Loren's sense of humor - I laughed so hard on this trip. I can honestly say that this has been the best vacation of my life.

Sunday we woke up ate breakfast at a little cafe around the corner of our hotel, Loren says this was the best meal of the of the trip. I spent one last hour at the beach then time to hurry up and wait for the trip home. We are so blessed! I hope to go back one day and if we ever hit it big I am taking all our children.

Monday, November 8, 2010

Hawaii - Day 2






Since we were still on AZ time we woke at 5:00Am and were quickly out the door looking for a breakfast place. It was still dark and parking sucks in Waikiki so we decided to head to Pali Lookout, a tip from our niece Brye. We saw the turn out but decided to continue north to Kailua to try to find breakfast, still too early. I know we are nerds. So we turned around to watch the sun come up over Pali Lookout and came in from the opposite direction which was so cool. The turn off was a road with big big trees on either side so it looked like a tunnel. The lookout was amazing, there was a view of the valley below, the ocean and the mountains. The wind was blowing like crazy but we were the only ones there and the beauty of this island confirms that there is a God. I loved it.

After Pali we finally had breakfast at a little shop Kimos and Boot's, bought some snorkeling gear and headed to Hanauma Bay. This was my favorite part of the trip. I have never understood snorkeling, probably because I had never been. Hanauma Bay is a nature preserve so we had to watch a movie about it and protecting it and as I am watching I am thinking, I hope we get lucky to see a few fish. We jumped in and not more than one minute there were fish everywhere. So neat, rainbow ones, black ones with an orange stripe, a school of white and yellow ones, sea anemones, big fish little fish, red fish blue fish he he. I loved it, the sun even came out for a bit so I could warm up. Loren and I had a blast I wish my children were there, although Wyatt used the snorkeling gear in the bath tub when we got home.

After snorkeling we headed to the North Shore again and found a spot and sat and watched the surfers for a long time. The waves were pretty big, not 30 feet but probably 15 feet or so. I wish I had learned to surf a long time ago, but the water in California was always so cold when we went in the summer. We saw a sea turtle pop it head up to get air (although at the time we did not know it was sea turtle). On our way home we drove by the temple it is beautiful, there is so much to see off the beaten path. I loved our rental car, I feel like it really gave us a feel of the island.

On our way home we stopped at another cool looking beach. I am amazed how few people were on the beaches we went to. This beach, I don't remember its name had a river that ran out to the sea. We started walking along and we found a coconut, after looking around we found the tree where it came from. It was off the river probably fell off floated down the river then the ocean washed it up to shore. We brought it home and all the kids had a taste of pure coconut milk and fresh coconut, so cool.

We headed home and our GPS took us through the mountains so cool, the tunnels were huge and they went through the entire mountain. I am glad we saw those in the light but hit rush hour traffic. We ditched the freeway and drove through China town and down town Honolulu - I guess even Paradise has to have its ghettos.

Hawaii - Day 1







Wow I love that state, I never thought I would get the opportunity to got there and then Loren started working at Cox Communications. He won his first trip a couple years ago to Laguna Beach CA. and after that trip I said, "Win me a trip to Hawaii will ya." He listened to me and in July after the contest had been going on for 5 months he said, "there is a trip to Hawaii contest and right now I am leading" He then teased me for the next 2 months, "my numbers have dropped, another person is now kicking butt, anything could happen don't get your hopes up" It wasn't' until October and we had our confirmation that I believed we were going. So here goes, our Hawaii trip.

Thurday 11/4 - We stayed in Waikiki on the island of Oahu in the Sheraton, we were greeted with a flower lei and a pineapple drink on our way to check in. Our room wasn't ready, and we didn't want to wait around wasting a day so we rented a car and were off. We took the long route to the North Shore stopping at any beach along the way snapped pictures. There were beaches that were all lava rocky and then there were beaches that had the softest sand, and then there were beaches that had the coconut trees growing right there. The water was so clear and turquoise. It was a little rainy but I didn't' care. We stopped and Loren bought a cold coconut off the side of the road from a big goofy Hawaiian missing teeth. He asked us where we were from and we said AZ. He said that he used to live in Florence. Loren and I looked at each other sure he was in the prison there but didn't' want to say anything. So Loren asked how did you like it a little different from Hawaii. The Hawaiian said "I didn't get to see much I was behind bars, that is why I am now selling coconuts off the side of the road." Loren and I laughed and continues on our way. We hit Pipeline and Off the Wall just as the sun was setting, so dang beautiful. We met a surfer there that knew his stuff and recommended a restaurant in Haleiwa. We weren't super hungry as we had bought shrimp from a little van off the side of the road, but the surfer said they had the best ma-hi burgers. Loren said he was right. We headed back to the hotel got checked in and crashed as it was midnight our time.

Sunday, October 31, 2010

Halloween


Halloween was a low key fun event. Ty went Trick or Treating with his friends so it was just Wyatt that wanted to go trick-or-treating. I made Taylor and Kyley go with us. They threw a costume together, Taylor a peace loving hippie and Kyley a gangster from Perry. Wyatt was a ninja skeleton, (he left his ninja mask at school so he had to improvise.) We didn't hit our "neighborhood" as it would take us an hour to hit 10 houses since they are so far apart. We went to the kid's school neighborhood.

Wyatt was so excited for Halloween this year. He started looking at the ads circling what he wanted to be about a month ago. One day as we were coming home from school he said "do you know what would be freaky?" I never know what Wyatt is going to say when he starts a sentence that way. Anyways, he continued, "If when you go to a house to trick-or-treat and you knock on the door you say "trick-or..." and they pass out like you were dead. The people passing out candy would totally freak. I better go practice" he says, and he runs in the house and practices "dying". Wyatt even saw his 1st grade teacher but he didn't do his trick, he did get a full size candy bar though.

Taylor and Kyley looked a little old to be out trick-or-treating but I hid as often as I could and it just looked like they were taking their brother out. I had fun since it had been a few years since the girls had gone out with me and not their friends, one of the perks of Halloween falling on Sunday. The best part, beside the candy was after about 45 minutes the kids were done, my feet didn't even hurt this year.

Ty Turns Ten


My oldest boy is now 10, double digits, a decade. I can't believe it. I think he had a good day. He woke up at 5:00AM to open his presents. It was a good thing since my parents were at our house at 5:45AM. They had a doctors appointment down the road and asked if they could come by. We are awake that early since Taylor has to be at school by 5:55 AM but celebrating a birthday complete with cake at 5:45 AM was a little odd. I love my parents, my Dad played Wii with Ty while I visited with my Mom. They ate cake and were out the door by 6:15AM.

It is tough to shop for a 10 yr old boys, they don't want the transformer toys or Legos any more but they are still too young for I-pods and such. Ty is so into football that we focused on that, he got a rug for his room that looks like a football field all 100 yards and football players, ASU football shirt, and Cardinal posters for his room. That night we took the family out to Carraba's for dinner. I love my Ty, he is such a good boy with a good heart that works hard at everything from school to football. I am so glad he was born.

Saturday, October 23, 2010

Diamondback Game


September 3, 2010... My children had never been to a professional baseball game that they remembered. When Loren worked for MCSO he had an off duty gig at the Cajun House a night club in Scottsdale, the players would come in and leave tickets for him at the will call all the time. We would go and take our girls but they were little and don't really remember. Kristin, my sister-in-law called and had 6 tickets to the D-back game that they couldn't use - do we want them. Heck ya, not 2 or 3 but 6 enough for the whole family. It was a Friday, Loren didn't have to work, Ty's football practice was canceled, it looked as if the stars had aligned.

We rode the Metro into Phoenix, that in itself was cool. There is something about a pro-stadium, the excitement, the field, the sounds, it was so cool. I liked watching my kid's faces as much as I liked watching the game. The D-backs were playing the Dodgers and at first Taylor and Ty said "can we cheer for the Dodgers?" I forbade it, I said you can like the Yankees and the D-backs. We will always cheer for the home town team. The D-backs lost but it was a good game and my kids are old enough and have played enough so they understood the game and they were totally into it. It was such a fun family night.

Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Rain and Perry


Today was my first day back at work with students after a two week break. It is tough getting back into the swing of things then add rain to it and the kids were crazy. Second hour they come running in so excited, ( now these are high school kids 16-18 yr olds) "there is a double rainbow did you see it so cool" I had missed it being trapped in my room with windows the size of shoe boxes, then a teacher sent out the e-mail with the picture of Perry High School and the double rainbow. It was cool!

I thought I am so lucky. I love Perry High. I have been teaching for 18 years the last 4 at Perry. It was the best move I could have made, I feel like I belong. I opened the school when we had 6 math teachers and 800 students, we now have 16 math teachers and 2100 students. I have realized no matter where you go there will be drama, new curriculum, district mandates blah blah blah but I am a part of Perry. I have the best co-workers, and best friends working with me, it is a mile from my home and best of all my daughter Taylor is there. I get to see her at school everyday, she pops into my room at random times. I know her friends, her teachers, when she has a boy friend, when the PSATs are and all that stuff. What is even better is next year Kyley will be at Perry too. I love it.

Monday, October 18, 2010

Horses









We have been at this horse property for 4 years and Loren got us a horse within a couple of months. This March we sold all our horses and were going to focus on raising cows. The kids weren't riding the horses and you can't eat them. Anyways, friends of ours needed a place to board their horses between gigs and we said "bring them over!"

It has been fun to have horses back on the property again and the kids have loved it! Our friends offer horseback riding lessons and Wyatt and Ty get to jump in any chance they get. They are learning so much. They are gaining balance and confidence.I even hopped on a horse, I had forgotten how much fun it is to ride.

On Monday Taylor and our friend's daughter, Lani when on a horseback ride around our home. They rode to the canal, up the banks, and around the neighborhood.Taylor was in heaven, she loved every minute of it. She had taken many lessons but she said this is what she wants to do, just go out and ride. I am so glad that my kids have these types of opportunities, I hope they realize how lucky they really are.